#4: Sunny's Lost Years (Part 2)
- Sarah Shirley
- Nov 7, 2018
- 18 min read
Updated: Nov 13, 2018
Welcome back, readers!
This is part 2 of a two-part phone interview I conducted with my good friend, Sunny. If you haven’t read part 1, I sincerely recommend that you go back and at least skim that one first. I believe it adds important context for the second half of this interview, plus it’s simultaneously fun, relatable, and emotionally vulnerable.
For those who don’t wish to go back and read part one, a brief summary: Sunny is a 20-year-old female who was diagnosed with ADHD only a few weeks before this interview. The first part of the interview covered several topics, including the grieving process one often goes through when diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood.
I’m excited to present part 2 of this discussion, where the conversation turns to topics that are often difficult to discuss, including addiction and resentment towards those close to us who mean well, but often fall short of giving the support we need.
[Warning: Adult language, discussions about addiction and hard drug use, and gratuitous talk about scientific and medical matters that neither of us are 100% on]
You mention you were diagnosed with depression and anxiety, but you were diagnosed with ADHD recently. So, you’ve been medicated for ADHD for less than a month?
Yeah, so what’s actually interesting about medication, and I don’t have to get into all of this now because it’s actually a lot, but I had a really interesting doctor’s appointment yesterday where I found out that – we ended up switching my medication. I was prescribed the starting dose, 30mg, for Vyvanse, but after a week I realized that it wasn’t working for me. And also, that it was incredibly expensive.
Oh yeah!
And when I was talking to my doctor she actually didn’t know how expensive it really was. We looked online and for 30 days’ worth of 40mg of Vyvanse it’s $396 without insurance. But for 20mg of Adderall extended release it was like $54. So, we ended up switching my medication and I’m actually now taking 20mg of extended release Adderall which I love. I think it works better than the Vyvanse and I’ve really enjoyed taking it. I can really tell a difference. Is it weird to say that you’ve enjoyed taking your medication?
[Both laugh] No, I totally get it.
Because I feel – you know a lot people say it’s like night and day and I definitely do feel that way. I feel capable, I feel – like you said, in control of myself. I feel like I’m actually able to clean the office or do whatever and it’s not just like… I don’t know. Being on medication has been really helpful.
[Disclaimer: Neither Sunny nor I are chemists or pharmacists or doctors, so don’t quote us on anything technical we’re about to say. The point of this interview series is to share lived experiences of having ADHD, not to teach a class on the technicalities of it. If anything we mention sparks your curiosity, I encourage you to do independent research to learn the specifics from qualified professionals.]
Just finding out that that’s the price difference, it’s kind of like – You know, Adderall is just like one chemical compound different than crystal meth.
And Vyvanse is not. It’s not an amphetamine. It’s still a stimulant, but it’s not as what some people would consider dangerous. So, you can cry conspiracy or whatever you want, but I just find it interesting that the super addictive and more dangerous treatment for ADHD is really accessible and cheap, but the treatment that is “safer” is super expensive and not accessible and that makes me so sad and kind of sick to my stomach.
That is so true. I started with Adderall and then switched to Vyvanse, and that’s a really good point. I do feel like… Adderall works for a lot of people, that’s not what I’m saying. But it is such a more “hardcore,” I guess, medication.
Oh absolutely. I think I’ve talked to you about this before, but I’m actually 2 years sober. I used to use crystal meth. And obviously taking Adderall is different, like this is the first time I’ve ever taken Adderall and it doesn’t feel the same way as if you were to offer me crystal meth right now. Obviously very, very different. But if you take too much Adderall, even if you’re prescribed it – like, let’s say you’re prescribed 20mg Adderall extended release and you take 2 pills, that’s twice as much as you’re prescribed. From what I understand they don’t even prescribe you 40mg of that, the most they do is 30mg. So that would be very, very similar to doing a small amount of crystal meth.
Interesting…
So, it’s like the more Adderall you abuse the closer you’re getting to that fine line, right? And it’s an issue because people will abuse their Adderall and not think twice about it. They don’t really consider the consequences of what they’re doing necessarily. You wake up one day and you’ve been abusing your Adderall for however many years, and you think that this isn’t really doing anything for me anymore, so what else can I try? And I know that’s not true for everybody and I don’t want to make generalizations, right? But I know people who that’s happened to. So, I think there needs to be a reevaluation from pharmaceutical companies for how much they’re charging for what drugs. And I know they don’t just do this with ADHD, they make the opioid treatments for pain and stuff more accessible than, say, medical marijuana and other things that could help. They have a pattern of making the most addictive drugs the most accessible. Addiction is a serious, serious thing and if we’re not careful it could be us, with the medications that we have to take to treat these kinds of problems that we have.
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. So, I know when I got diagnosed and talked to the doctor who diagnosed me, he… I learned way more about ADHD online than I ever did in an office setting. And so, one thing that I learned is that a big part of ADHD is about dopamine receptors. Either you have less, or they don’t work as well or whatever. So, there’s a lot of literature that says that ADHD and addiction go really hand-in-hand because people with ADHD tend to chase those dopamine hits, so you get addicted to eating or video games or drugs, anything like that. Do you think that no matter what you might have pursued hardcore drugs like you’ve done, or do you think that maybe had you been medicated for ADHD at a young age or if you had never had ADHD at all, things would have been different on that front?
Oh, 100% abso-fucking-lutely. I would never have touched crystal meth if I hadn’t been persuaded to because it helped the person that gave it to me with school.
Oh, wow.
Little bit of background: I’m adopted, and my birth mom is an addict. She didn’t want to give up the party, and her drug of choice was crystal meth. So, I had always told myself that I would never do that, I would never be like her. But then my freshman year of college I had this friend, and they had been on meth for 3 years. They kind of presented it to me like, “It’s really helped me with my musical instrument. It’s really helped me in the school of music. It’s really helped me with my grades. I’ve never done better in school than I have since using this.” That was my first semester of college and I was already struggling. Of course, like who wouldn’t-? I read a lot on people who have ADHD who are drawn to stimulants because they do somewhat help their ADHD symptoms. And so, it was like, I tried it once and immediately felt different, in a good way. I remember after doing it for the first time, my first thought was, “This is going to be a problem for me for the rest of my life.”
Wow.
But I knew it was because it helped me in ways that I couldn’t really articulate.
Right, it was filling some need you had that was always there.
Yeah, and it started out and I really was using this as a way to help me with clarinet and with my grades and with school, but then it eventually reached a point where it was unhealthy, and it was bad and thankfully it will be 2 years in December I’ve been sober. And I’m really proud of myself, but if I had been diagnosed with ADHD in high school and I had been treated then, I would never have had any reason to be drawn to anything to help me with focus because I would have already had that need met. And that was one thing that I honestly did think about that I had to grieve for. If I had been diagnosed with ADHD in high school, would I have been this severe of an addict? Would I have spent all that time tweaked out of my mind? Would I have hurt the people that I did? Would I have absolutely lost myself the way that I did? And thankfully I’m a much happier, much better person. I’m much more positive. And I wasn’t as deep in as I could have been, and I am thankful for that. But that is definitely one thing I did think about – treatment then versus treatment now, how it could have affected addiction in my life.
Absolutely. I just want to take a moment to say that it is awesome that you are 2 years sober. Like, congratulations, that is amazing.
Thank you, thank you so much. Yeah, if you had told me while I was still doing it that I would reach a point where I was 2 years sober, I would have laughed in your face. And for the first year, every day was a struggle, but now I don’t really think about it as often. And when I do, it’s easier for me to separate myself and not think about it. It does get easier as you go, but it’s still there. It’s always still there. I’ve been to NA (Narcotics Anonymous) meetings, and you never go to an NA meeting and hear, “Hi, I’m blank and I used to be an addict.” I think it’s important to always see ourselves as in recovery because the moment that we think we’re recovered is the moment that things go to shit again. And whether that’s for an eating disorder or my mental health or addiction, the moment I’m like, “Oh, I’m cured, I’m fine” is the moment that it’s like, “Nope!” Shitty thing after shitty thing after shitty thing that you can’t handle. So, it’s always helpful to consider myself in recovery.
That’s really awesome. I super agree. You hear all these horror stories about how the time right after rehab is the most dangerous for drug addicts, especially struggling with addictions to harder stuff like crack or heroine because you think you’re good again and you try it again because things get hard again and it’s lethal because you don’t realize your body isn’t used to what it used to be able to handle. So, I think that’s all very good and important.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I had a question…that was on the tip of my tongue…if I could trace back to it, let’s see… [hums while thinking]… Oh, okay. So, for a lot of people I’m asking what it felt like the first time they used their medication. What that difference felt like. Obviously you brought up how when you used crack before there was a difference, so I’m kind of curious 1) how you felt, but I guess also sort of… if you care to explore – I don’t want to explore too much if as a recovering addict if it would do any harm to you, but…
Oh no, it’s absolutely fine. I’m actually at a place now where I can talk about it. I’ve talked to D about it before. I’m at a place where I can talk about it and be okay. So yeah, as I mentioned earlier, I was trying to show somebody what I mean by Adderall and crystal meth being one chemical compound different, so I drew out both the compounds side-by-side, and it’s literally like one extra compound off of the original, like – I’M NOT GOOD AT SCIENCE, but it’s like one arm difference. Like, one nitrogen or something, it’s the smallest difference between Adderall and crystal meth.
So, it’s kind of like, whereas Adderall affects you in a normal, manageable, sane sort of way, crystal meth is like 0 to 100. So, if you can focus better on Adderall, then you are hyper focusing and pissing your pants before you leave your chair if you’re not done on crystal meth. What people refer to as tweaking, right? So, I got a lot of homework done during that time.
[Laugh]
I got a lot of poetry written during that time. It made me talk much more than I do normally, which is still a lot, so it didn’t help in that regard. I mean it was basically like the effects of Adderall, but incredibly amplified. But I was very restless during that time, so it is different. Whereas now with my Adderall, I am talking to you and I am answering your questions, so I’m talking a bit, but I don’t feel the need to talk as much, and I can have one thought and think about that one thought and not have it interrupted by anything else and then I can let it go. So, my thoughts are more manageable versus racing all the time.
Do you think that that has – and again, obviously this kind of stuff takes time – but do you think that either it has, or you expect that it will help with your anxiety and depression symptoms, being medicated? Just having more control over your thoughts in general?
Well the doctor that diagnosed me was really great and we talked about my depression and anxiety because when I was diagnosed I also had to take this over 300 question test that literally asks you questions about EVERYTHING. I remember one of the questions was like, “True or False: I like to hurt animals” and I was like why is this on here? But I know that those kinds of tests are used to diagnose a broad spectrum of things. So, he could look at my results and see that yes, I have ADHD as well as depression and anxiety and he also picked up that I might have characteristics of Avoidant Personality Disorder based off that test. So we talked a lot about depression and anxiety and ADHD and we talked about how they kind of work together, and he was saying that a lot of people do experience that their depression and anxiety symptoms get better once they get medicated because the ADHD can cause you to – like if you have a negative thought, that negative thought could stay with you for a long time if you hyper focus on it, so that’s one way that he said being medicated for ADHD can help people with their depression and anxiety. And I don’t really know if I’ve experienced that yet. I do feel happier, but I think that’s because I’m excited to finally feel not frazzled all the time and like I’m forgetting something all the time. I do feel somewhat happier, but I’ll have to gauge that and be more in tune with my emotions to see if that gets better going forward.
Have you heard of – this is also something I had to look up online, I didn’t hear this from a doctor. Have you heard about RSD? Rejection Sensitivity Disorder?
No, I have not.
Okay, so it’s really interesting and it explains so much about my life. So, people with ADHD, and not just ADHD, I think it can present itself in Borderline and a few other things. Rejection Sensitivity Disorder is – because people with ADHD have dysfunction in the executive function part of their brain which is used for decision making and such, it’s also for regulating emotions. So, Rejection Sensitivity Disorder is when the person with it experiences something they interpret as rejection or criticism and they feel a pain. It’s not just guilt, it’s not just shame. It’s like a super intense, pain-like sensation, which I know I had a lot growing up. Does that sound familiar to things that you’ve experienced?
Oh yeah, absolutely. I can recall times where I’ve felt physical pain because of that sort of thing. Whatever the circumstance, there have been times where I’ve felt either a physical pain, or a pain that I can’t describe, and I think the closest word I can use to describe it is like a paroxysm. I was talking to a friend of mind who studies psychology and he says that a lot of the reasons why my doctor might have said that I might have Avoidant Personality Disorder could potentially be described by my Borderline or whatever, but as far as RSD goes, that’s something I have to look more into because I haven’t heard of that.
Yeah. I think that learning about that opened my eyes to a whole new world of how ADHD has affected me – not just in school, not just at work, but like my relationships with people and my ability to function just in life in general. It’s really interesting. I think it would be interesting to look into, it might be kind of insightful.
No, yeah, I will. Definitely. Thank you.
Absolutely. Okay, we’ve covered a lot of just excellent ground in this interview, so I have just a couple more questions. These are questions I like to ask most if not all the people I interview.
Okay!
The first one is: If you could choose one thing about ADHD and have everyone understand it and accept it, what do you think it would be?
Hmm…
Or about you because of your ADHD symptoms.
I don’t know if this is necessarily just an ADHD thing or if it’s that combined with my BPD, but when I feel something intensely, right? Whether it’s excitement, anger, sadness, I tend to have to – like I genuinely cannot help this. I have tried my hardest my whole life to contain this, but I’m just a very loud and expressive person. So, when I’m excited, that manifests itself as me being overly excited and just like… It’s just very loud, very vibrant excitement. But also, when I’m angry – so the other day there was a lot of shit that happened at work and I was just trying to vent about it, but I didn’t realize that I was yelling as I was venting. And I do that a lot when I’m mad or upset. And I can’t really help that I’m so loud, I just have so many emotions and I feel so many things so much. Like, all of that coming out – it comes out in a sort of unmanageable way. I read online that other people with ADHD experience that, but I don’t know if it’s just an ADHD thing, or if that’s ADHD with my Borderline, I really don’t know. But that would be one thing. Like, my parents have always gotten really mad at me and told me to calm down, which is the opposite of helpful.
Right.
And D gets upset when like – and obviously if I’m loud he has the right to be upset. But he kind of internalizes it and takes it as I’m mad at him. But no, I’m just a loud person and I can’t help that if I’m angry about work then I’m loud. It’s just something I’ve tried to manage my whole life and have failed at. But if everybody could understand that I’m loud and I’m just expressing how I’m feeling and that’s not necessarily a bad thing, nor does it reflect negatively on anybody else… It’s just, like, I feel a lot of things and just like somebody who feels a lot of things and doesn’t necessarily talk about it but they go and they write music, or paint, or go play a sport of whatever – the same way those people take what they’re feeling, because they’re feeling so much, and they’re expressing it in a different way – It’s me talking about it. Just because it’s loud doesn’t mean I’m not just venting. So, I would have that be more understood.
Yeah, for people to not take it personally.
Yeah, for sure.
Okay, so I hear – it’s a very controversial topic in the ADHD forums that I regular – the idea that ADHD is a “gift.” It makes people more creative and more empathetic, so it should be something that’s celebrated and be glad that you have –
Yeah, see, I don’t- [hums in annoyance]
Yeah, what are your thoughts on that? Because it is controversial.
I don’t think I necessarily agree. I wouldn’t change the fact that I’m creative for anything. Like, I wouldn’t trade that for anything. Not even potentially not having ADHD. But to say that combined with any other thing makes that a gift…. I think that because of the nature of what we go through and experience, I… [sigh]…Like I get really mad when I hear someone say that everybody has a little bit of ADHD –
YEAH.
Because they don’t. Not everybody has executive dysfunction. Not everybody tries to do the laundry and ends up not being able to finish putting the clothes away. Not everybody struggles with that. Not everybody sits down to do homework and gets overwhelmed because it’s all so much and they don’t know where to start. Not everybody has problems isolating thoughts and thinking one thing at a time. But to say that it’s a gift when so many of us are belittled and ridiculed and demeaned and honestly bullied and harassed, I think to say that it’s just a gift and we should be grateful for the positive things that we get from it takes away from a lot of the shit we have to put up with because of it. Like, when I was in middle school there was a time where my parents had to drive me back to school every day because I would constantly forget my books and my homework in my locker. Because my memory has always been so bad, right? And even if my creativity is a gift, it’s not if I can’t use it because I have executive dysfunction that doesn’t allow me to even start writing a poem or start playing the guitar. Like, I can’t use this “gift” that it brings me if the rest of the unmanaged symptoms prevent me from doing that. So, I guess in some ways, I mean, whatever. But I also know that I’m creative because my biological parents are both very creative people. Especially my birth dad. And I know I’m creative because I was raised with an intense love for music. So, I wouldn’t say that it’s specifically the ADHD that makes me creative, but I guess I can recognize that that is a gift. But to reduce it to that I think is a little offensive. Because I think for people who don’t have it, it would be easy to say that as a means of support. But until you live a day with my brain, don’t speak for it. I wish all those years that my parents spent screaming at me about school, they had spent trying to understand and help me figure out why. If instead of being my adversaries during school, they had tried to be on my team. And their excuse is always, “Well, we’re your parents, not your friends.” But when I’m clearly struggling, and you reduce it to me just being lazy, that’s not helpful and I don’t think that’s really any way a parent should handle their children. Especially when come to find out years later that their children do have a learning disability. And so, I think that when parents reduce it to that, especially after years of them giving us shit for this thing that they didn’t even know that we had, it’s also a slap in the face when it’s from that perspective of a parent or someone who was really un-understanding before.
Is there anything else, any sort of major things you’ve been thinking about in terms of this new diagnosis that’s been mulling around in your brain, or anything else you’d really like to say before we wrap up this interview?
If there’s one thing that I could say…to me in high school…
YES.
It would be to keep bugging my parents to schedule…I would tell my younger self to find another doctor. Immediately. I would tell her not to give up, even when that feels like the only option. And that no matter how “un-normal” your brain is, that doesn’t make you any less valid as a human. Because I know it’s super easy to feel really, really negatively about yourself because of this. I remember how hard it was trying to wrap my head around, “Why can’t I do things the way that other people can?” “Why isn’t this as easy for me?” You know? And I really questioned my value, and whether or not I had a valid… like, whether or not I was valid. Whether I had a place in school, whether I had a place with the people around me, or even in life. It was just really hard. Because I didn’t know what it was, and I didn’t know how to handle it, and I had all these people around me telling me how easy it should be to focus and change, assuming it was just laziness or defiance or stupidity. I think that, if anything, I would go back in time and just be the voice that I needed at the time. I didn’t need anybody else to tell me how to focus better, I just needed to know why I couldn’t. I think it would be that. Getting my diagnosis was one thing, but after that – going online and reading things and finding r/ADHD and doing my own research online and reading other people’s experiences and finding youtubers that had videos on their experiences and what their lives were like – feeling like I wasn’t the only person that felt this way or was dealing with this was really helpful. Having friends that also have it. And having my family being surprisingly supportive, especially my grandad – that was really helpful. So, I feel a lot of things, but more than anything I just feel grateful right now.
That’s awesome.
Yeah.
That’s really great. [Laugh] This has been an incredible interview.
Aww, I’m so glad! Thank you so much, and I’m really glad you wanted me to do this and I’m so excited to do this. You’re just so wonderful, and I miss you.
I miss you too! I can’t wait for you to come up and visit.
With the interview concluded, Sunny and I continued gushing about our friendship for some time before hanging up.
I feel so grateful to Sunny for volunteering to be interviewed. I knew we had a bond, and I knew that she is emotionally honest and forth-coming. But even knowing this, I couldn’t have imagined how insightful and open she would be about this diagnosis that she was given so recently. I feel that it took me at least six months to explore many of the implications of my ADHD on how I grew up and how it affected my relationships with other people and the world around me. And I consider myself a constant self-analyzer.
I believe that this interview needs little of my after-thoughts. Sunny expressed herself better than I ever could. However, if I address anyone at this time, I would like to address any parents who may be reading this.
Dear Parents,
If you have a child who is struggling with ADHD, or you have the slightest inclination that they may be, please consider Sunny’s story. Read it closely. Read it multiple times. Consider the effects of your words on your children. Be patient with them. Support them. I know it’s not easy at times, but they need you to be, as Sunny says, on their team, not their adversaries. It could very well save their life.
Below you’ll find links to important resources relevant to this interview.
Until next time,
Be well.
Links:
For ADHD education
https://www.additudemag.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nPM1_kSZf91ZGkcgy_95Q (How To ADHD)
https://chadd.org/
For an online ADHD support group
https://www.reddit.com/r/adhd
For Narcotics Anonymous
https://www.na.org/
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